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Afterworld it sucks


Dragonmanau
Ewok
Posts: 1

Afterworld it sucks

4 Sep 2007 at 8:00pm

I am a scifi junkie but the one show I cannot stand is Afterworld it should be sent never to return as the concept is 30 years old from the days of the orginal war of the worlds the style of animation absolutly suck and makes it implossible to follow any form of story line if there actually is one. The creator of this program should go back to school. I saw the show for 5 minutes and was totally Disgusted with it. It is wasting valuable air time REPLACE IT

webyter
Ensign
Posts: 23

Afterworld it sucks

4 Sep 2007 at 8:37pm

pretty harsh comments, the animation is unique and has a style of its own and should be appreciated for that, the story has a lot of potential, one thing that upsets me is the way it has been globally launched, it should of been same day for everyone, and one website for all fans not seperate for each global region, you should give it a go and watch it as it unfolds

afterworldblog.blogspot.com

X
Ensign
Posts: 35

Afterworld it *dont* sucks

10 Sep 2007 at 6:26pm

i agree with webyter.

those were harsh comments, the animation is unique, and a program used for making it is called poser.
now, if you were to use this program to make a fully animated weekly series that is tweened with keyframes and each individual fram rendered at such high quality to be broadcast, well, i dont think your CPU would be able to handle posting up on these forums how your progress is.
because the regular episodes if animated would be released monthly, with a network of rendering computers and a huge team of artist, say one per scene.
and the short story would not flow if animated, to make it work that way would be to make full lenght episodes, and the way this series and its entire world is structured it would be too drawn out.

if you have a negative opinion for people who work hard to entertain people, why would you take the effort to post a negative comment up here, instead of picking up the remote and change the chanell.

word of advice.

just die.

x

Tastiger
Ensign
Posts: 38

Afterworld it *dont* sucks

14 Nov 2007 at 2:55pm

X wrote:
i agree with webyter.

those were harsh comments, the animation is unique, and a program used for making it is called poser.
now, if you were to use this program to make a fully animated weekly series that is tweened with keyframes and each individual fram rendered at such high quality to be broadcast, well, i dont think your CPU would be able to handle posting up on these forums how your progress is.
because the regular episodes if animated would be released monthly, with a network of rendering computers and a huge team of artist, say one per scene.
and the short story would not flow if animated, to make it work that way would be to make full lenght episodes, and the way this series and its entire world is structured it would be too drawn out.

if you have a negative opinion for people who work hard to entertain people, why would you take the effort to post a negative comment up here, instead of picking up the remote and change the chanell.

word of advice.

just die.

x

Well all I have to say and I do work with Poser - I would love to know what version of Poser they are using and what type of machine it is running on -

It really can't be Poser 7 because the quality of work just isn't up to standard - no use has been made of the ability to use dynamic hair or clothing in the production and it just looks so unprofessional

If you think I am down playing exactly what the program Poser can do - just follow this link:-
http://www.renderosity.com/mod/gallery/index.php

X
Ensign
Posts: 35

Afterworld it *dont* sucks

14 Nov 2007 at 6:17pm

dude, seriously.

they would pump these episodes out fairly quickly to get them broadcast ready.

the time needed for an ultra quality rendering with full modified real life textures and dynamic hair and clothing applied would take a long time.
where you may do this profesionally or as a hobby you may have a long time to get everything looking perfect, but with hundreds of images of each model at different camera angles and poses rendered at a LARGE canvas size as opposed to a ultra high quality will reduce render times and maximise the images that may be implemented so your not staring at one image per scene where we will get a few images per sentence.

as a graphic artist which im sure if you are may be good at and proud of what you do.
with afterworld getting alot of attention you may feel ripped off with what you do being at such a great quality, but under time constraints the quality is good, and the images are a compliment to the storyline and voiceovers.
the show isnt based entirely around the VFX.
or if you just researched the program i mentioned and are dissapointed. you should be ashamed of yourself for being so critical.

also, i dont think that poser 7 would be out by the time production on afterworld had started and to change programs would make a huge fuss with mass installing and liscencing fees.

no matter which angle you view it on you are being overly critical of a show that is really great, i dont watch alot of TV and enjoy the show mostly over the internet. its one of the few things to look forward to after work/skewl/a day out...

so just enjoy afterworld =] its very enjoyable.

x

SJ19
Ewok
Posts: 1

Afterworld it *dont* sucks

15 Nov 2007 at 7:40am

OK I'm not disputing your right to your opinion - and I can appreciate the effort that goes into such a production - but it is the simple things that stick out and make it look bad.

An example was in last nights episode - the kid was leaning forward and his fringe didn't move from his forehead - it's just the little things.

In fact last night actually had more animation in it than any other episode

As for the rendering - most of each episode takes place in one location - so initial setup of scene is about 1 hour - remember it isn't totally animated so only stills are involved so changing poses is about 5 mins per still and perhaps a render time of 20 mins maximum per still on a decent computer.

It's not like we are talking Dreamworks here with proprietary software and a render farm of 40 + computers.

They are using a $US 250 application and I applaud them for that - it's just I feel they could use the potential of the application a little more to it's fullest.

I am not sure when production started but Poser 7 has been available since December 2006.

But given a decent computer - I think the actual images per episode would be less than 8 hours to setup and render......

AW Animator
Ewok
Posts: 1

Afterworld it *dont* sucks

17 Nov 2007 at 3:37pm

My name is Duane Loose...and I am the Sr. Art Director/Production Designer for the series afterworld. It's great to read your posts. You're passion and knowledge shows through!! Great comments all the way round.

As of this writing our team is working on the final 10 episodes: 121 through 130. We're scheduled to finish next Wednesday - the day before our Thanksgiving Day in the USA. And I for one will be giving thanks that we're done...believe me. The project has been challenging for many different reasons...some of the factors have been quite unexpected. The speed and pace of production for example. Our saying is that a day in 'afterworld' production is like a week or 2 on any other production we've worked on. We literally move at a speed and pace I've never experienced anywhere before. it's fun, exhilarating and very challenging. We've worked very hard to bring this show to life - and much of that time we've been inventing the process and creating the pipeline at the same time. I call it -running the race while I'm tying my shoes. You might think that as professionals we would have had it all figured out before we started. Nope. Plus it's not like anything any of us have done before. Similar - but deceptively difficult and very easy to underestimate how challenging it is to tell a story visually with 4 poses, a 2 1/2 D parallax BG and some moving mist and skies. Hah! Easy. Nope. Fun and challenging? Yes!

Our rule of thumb is to keep each episode to 10-14 shots with 5 to 7 backgrounds. We found this to be a produce-able number- allowing us to currently pump out 10 episodes in 10 days or less. We have achieved an episode a day for the past 20 episodes...but we don't recommend it. Many things break at that pace - usually the artists. It may sound like an excuse but there is quite a difference between a single one-off render and the number of elements that go into a full episode. When you look at the actual time it takes in each phase - the math is never simple addition or subtraction - always multiplication and division. As in sometime orders of magnitude greater when render a 20 second shot with 4 characters - each one with 4 poses. That's 16 poses at 4 to 8 K - 30 minutes a pop and 8 CPU hours later you have your renders. Multiply that number by 12 for the average number of shots times 5 for the number of concurrent episodes being worked on and you...well you get the picture. We are happily busy and that includes running a 10 am to 8 pm and a 2pm to 12 am double shift.

We use a very basic production design process - beginning with a solid produce-able script, a beat outline, storyboards and animatics - then into background creation, character posing and rendering, shot compositing and editing. We usually iterate twice at each production step to make sure that what we make in the next step is well informed and correct.

Our team is composed of a great mix of mostly senior artists with a combined credit list and years of experience that are pretty amazing in their variety and quality. I've enjoyed this experience perhaps more than any in my career. I hope you don't mind me putting in my thoughts on your thread - I think I can shed a little light on some of the comments.

As I read your comments I found all of them to be more or less accurate in their intent and I would probably make the same assumptions if I hadn't been on the inside of the production experiencing the production pipeline first hand. So, here's some data.

Poser: By the time we are finished with afterworld we will have created over 80 characters for the show. Most of those have been created in the past 4 months. Poser is perhaps the best procedural tool for quick character creation ever created. It's enabled us to create the cast for each chunk of episodes - usually in a matter of days, a week at most for each. We have a very close relationship with the Poser folks. They've given us some fantastic support including fixes and tools for some of our needs. We use the latest version - poser 7. Poser lacks a network rendering capability - so we've written some custom scripts and utilities to allow us to batch render. While this is not ideal- it works. We will absolutely continue to work with Poser for character creation - but will probably use another package for animation and rendering in the next season. We've investigated some promising tech that would allow us to bring Poser assets into Lightwave for example.

One factor that we deal with every day is render times. We typically have multiple characters in a given scene- sometimes we have many characters. To keep the heartbeat cadence of the style we change poses approximately every 3 to 5 seconds. We also render our images very large - a minimum of 2K and usually 6 or 8K resolution. This gives us maximum flexibility when we composite - starting tight and close and pulling out wide for example in the same shot. So we work hard to set up the lighting and geo elements to get the best quality we can at that size while optimizing render times. We use a lot of image based lighting - -which speeds things up dramatically.

Another factor in our look is that we are not trying to be a movie or animated TV show. Because of the speed of production we chosen not to execute cloth or hair simulation - yes it would be beautiful but ultimately those things don't help or hinder the story telling and always slow us down on the render side. We have artists that are experts in those areas but that's not an element we chose to focus on. In the end we chose to lean hard into color, atmosphere and animated atmospherics with good looking characters exhibiting good specularity and solid expressive acting.

In addtion to Poser we use Lightwave, After Effects, Final Cut. Maya, Premiere, Particle Illusion and several other support tools. On the database side we use a library version-ing software called perforce and a render manager for our 20 proc renderfarm - Qube. We also use Vue D'esprit 6 infinite for many of our BG plates and matte paintings. We use 2 sets of Sapphire plugins for after effects - those are awesome. We purchase models from Turbosquid, DAZ and Content Paradise as well as using free models wherever we can scavenge them. As you can see- Poser is integral but ultimately very small part of our pipeline- albeit the single greatest factor effecting our production speed as it concerns rendering.

Another factor in the pressure of production is actually related to afterworlds release in Australia. When Sony told of us of their plans we barely had a few dozen episodes 'in the can' and a similar situation on the scripts - (did I mention that the final scripts were finished a few weeks ago?) Sony, of course, asked for a commitment from us to meet the rollout plans for SciFi AU. we looke at the schedule. After our nervous laughter subsided and we all had a stiff drink or two - we hitched up our britches and went to work . That was July. Since that time a team of 15 artists and 1 to 4 writers have written and produced 100 episodes to the quality you see in all it's glory before you. Are they perfect? No. Do some of them suck? Yes. And the vast majority of the episodes continue to be a fascinating convergence of graphic novel, anime art with a great story that we all, well most of us anyway, find engaging, relevant and worthy of our devotion...not only as an audience...but worthy of our time as artists and creators as well.

That's a lot of information. I'll be happy to answer any questions you may have. You can reach me at duane.loose@gmail.com.

cheers

D_

{Vulcan Eddie}
Jedi Grand Master
Posts: 1168

Afterworld it *dont* sucks

7 Dec 2007 at 9:30am

Throwing a shrimp on the barbie Duane... :D

stacks
Padawan
Posts: 9

Afterworld it *dont* sucks

7 Dec 2007 at 10:51am

Haven't seen this but the shorts are enough for me NOT to tune into it.If I want to see Playstation type graphics...I'll go play on the console and not have it on my tv.

{Vulcan Eddie}
Jedi Grand Master
Posts: 1168

Afterworld it *dont* sucks

7 Dec 2007 at 1:57pm

So its not everyones cup of tea.But from a production veiw point those dudes should be up for a guiness book of world record title for going hard. Give them a break.